help me choose a 5-channel amp

[94JZA80]

OK, here's the deal. i have two 8" JL W7's in my Celica. i have a 500/1 for the subs and a 300/4 for my mids & highs. i would like a nice setup in my Supra as well, but i don't have alot of money to spend, and i don't want to incur a major weight penalty. so here's what i've convinced myself to do: i'm going to take one of the 8" subs in the Celica and move it to the Supra. but that's enough i want to say about the Supra, since i don't have the time or the money to work on it right now. the Celica is my daily driver, and thus takes priority over the Supra when it comes to in-car entertainment.

so what i would like to do in the Celica is remove one of the 8" subs (which again will be set aside for the Supra later down the road) and also remove the 500/1 and 300/4 for a 500/5, or any decent 5-channel amp with sufficient wattage.

so after all that nonsense that i just typed above, here is the real question: what 5-channel amp do i go with? originally i was thinking about JL's 500/5 since my current amps are JL, but it is quite expensive brand new, and not much cheaper on eBay. i spoke with Shawn (A4ringed1.8T) about this yesterday, since he's my audio guru :D, and he suggested maybe getting an Alpine 5-channel amp since its a quality product without the insanely high price. i was wondering if anyone else has any recommendations or experience with any other high quality/not-so-high cost 5-channel amps.


TIA,
Eric

[WhoFlungPoo]

I had all Alpine in my Benz. LOVED IT! I would go that route again in a heart beat.

If you're interested, I've still got my old amps and 12" sub just collecting dust in the garage. One 4 channel and one 2 channel and 12" type-S.

http://bandbhobbies.com/jwebb/images/Sub_flash.jpg

http://bandbhobbies.com/jwebb/images/Trunk_full_non-neon_side.jpg

[Mr.bimmerPuck]

Kicker has the best deals on amps STRONG and well worth the money i have kicker every thing in my car 2 L7;s and 2500 watt kicker amp

[94JZA80]

I had all Alpine in my Benz. LOVED IT! I would go that route again in a heart beat.

If you're interested, I've still got my old amps and 12" sub just collecting dust in the garage. One 4 channel and one 2 channel and 12" type-S.
thank you for the offer, but right now i'm really only interested in 5-channel amp suggestions. as you can see i already have the subwoofer...granted its only an 8", but JL's W7 pretty much blows most other subs out of the water when it comes to sound quality and crispness (i know there are better ones out there, but i'm not trying to build a show car quality sound system in my Celica haha). and my 8" W7 also hits as low as most larger subs anyways, so i'm happy with it. i just need a 5-channel amp to run everything off of, instead of powering my subs and mids/highs with separate amps. as i said above, Shawn suggested Alpine brand amps, so its definitely something i'm looking into.




Kicker has the best deals on amps STRONG and well worth the money i have kicker every thing in my car 2 L7;s and 2500 watt kicker amp
thanks for the suggestion...i'll have to have a look at Kicker's amps as well.

[JCapelo]

Pics of said celica.

[WhoFlungPoo]

Alpine doesn't make a 5 channel amp.

Kicker only has one.

Kicker ZX.5 - 70W x 4 channels @ a 4ohm load and 210W for a 4 ohm sub which would be slightly under powered for the W7. Retail is about $579.99 @ Circuit City

[94JZA80]

Pics of said celica.
:lol: i don't have any pics of the Celica. its a base model POS, not a GT. the only nice thing about it was the system (before it stopped working correctly), and it didn't even look good, it just sounded good. i didn't care about fancy painted amps racks and sub enclosures. the only thing its got going for it other than a system is the fact that its a '94 (i.e. its the previous generation Celica with the best looking body...its a hatchback too, not the ugly coupe/trunk version). its the closest the Celica ever came to looking like the MKIV Supra :D.

[94JZA80]

Alpine doesn't make a 5 channel amp.

Kicker only has one.

Kicker ZX.5 - 70W x 4 channels @ a 4ohm load and 210W for a 4 ohm sub which would be slightly under powered for the W7. Retail is about $579.99 @ Circuit City
thanks for the info.


now i'm actually debating whether i really need a 5-channel amp or not. here's what i have in the car: Boston Rally's - two 6.5's in the back, two 5.25's up front, and two tweeters (size unknown)...and of course one 8" W7 sub. the sweet spot for the 8" W7 is 300W, but from what i understand, 250W is more than enough. i'm not sure how far below 250W i'm willing to go for the subwoofer channel, so ideally i'd like to be around the 250W mark on the subwoofer channel. keep in mind that i've been running two 8" W7's on a 500/1, so i'm accustomed to having 250W go to each sub.

does this info make it any easier for you all to help determine my options? if not, i'll try to give more info.

[WhoFlungPoo]

Biggest question unanswered is what kind of head unit are you running? You may be able to get away with no amp on the mids/highs and only a single amp for the sub. It won't sound as nice as a fully powered system, but it might be the cheapest solution.

You may not want to hear it, but my recomendation is to buy my old Alpine amps. It will be WWAAAYYY cheaper than any other options new and they are great quality. Here's the specs...

Alpine MRV-T420 2 channel amp
2/1 Channel Power Amplifier
Featuring a special ?no-shut-down? design
V12seriesamplifiershave true staying power, they delivertight, powerfulbass,smooth highs,and flawless fidelity for as longas you want
They feature Bass EQ processing
built-in crossover network for extensive control
225W x 2 (Max)

340W x 1 RMS [4 ohm -Bridged @14.4V (0.3%THD)] - This is how I had it wired for my one 12" sub. Perfect for your JL 8W7

170W x 2 RMS [2 ohm @14.4V (0.3%THD)]
110W x 2 RMS [4 ohm @14.4V (0.08%THD)]
240W x 1 RMS [4 ohm - Bridged @12V (0.3%THD)]
120W x 2 RMS [2 ohm @12V (0.3%THD)]
75W x 2 RMS [4 ? @12V (0.08%THD)]
Bass Engine (Variable HP/LP/BP Crossover, Bass EQ)
Alpine V12 PWM MOSFET Power Supply
STAR Technology
4 Volt Input Capability
Extra-Large Gold-Plated Power Terminals
Top Mounted Controls
Control Panel Cover
Blue Power/Status Indicator
Integrated Wire and Mounting Screw Covers

Alpine MRV-F340 4 channel amp
4 x 100w Max @ 4 Ohms
4 x 55w RMS @ 4 Ohms
4 x 65w RMS @ 2 Ohms
S/N Ratio 100 dBA
Bass Engine Ready
12dB HP/LP Crossover
30Hz-400Hz
Speaker Level Input
2 x 250w Max @ 4 Ohms Bridged
2 x 130w RMS @ 4 Ohms Bridged
STAR Technology
4 Volt Input Capability
Control Panel Cover
Preout
Top Mounted Controls
MOSFET Power Supply

$100/each if you're interested. If not, I'm more than happy to research other options for ya. I may not be a "guru", but I know my shit.

[semich4rmedlyfe]

I have a Kicker 1200x1 and I wub it.

[94JZA80]

Biggest question unanswered is what kind of head unit are you running? You may be able to get away with no amp on the mids/highs and only a single amp for the sub. It won't sound as nice as a fully powered system, but it might be the cheapest solution.
Alpine CDA 9835 (60W x 4)...the reason i didn't mention it before was because it isn't an option b/c i don't want to sacrifice sound quality. money is an issue, but not that much of an issue...



You may not want to hear it, but my recomendation is to buy my old Alpine amps. It will be WWAAAYYY cheaper than any other options new and they are great quality.

$100/each if you're interested. If not, I'm more than happy to research other options for ya. I may not be a "guru", but I know my shit.
i'm willing to hear any advice at this point. the only problem i have with this is that i'm trying to get away from having to use two amps. my entire system will run on one amp, and i'd like to keep it that simple. i'd have a fiberglass enclosure for the sub, and nothing fancy to mount the amp (as opposed to the big 2-sub box with two amps mounted on the sides that i have now). perhaps i could use only one of your amps to power my system? the MRV-T420 is a bit high for one 8W7 bridged at 340W for my liking i think. remember i have a hatch, so the sound is not coming from a separate trunk compartment. 250W does quite fine for me, but i don't want to really go lower than that. 300W on the high end would be pushing it, but tolerable.

[sWeEtLOu]

jl 300/4?

[94JZA80]

jl 300/4?
that would be awesome if a 300/4 were an option since i already have one. but i don't anymore than 300W, or any less than 250W going to the sub. the 300/4 is 75W per channel, and the best it does bridged in 2-channel mode is 150W per channel.

[WhoFlungPoo]

Keep in mind, you can always turn the power down, but you can't make an amp push more power than it's rated at. So yes, my amp does 340w bridged RMS, but that doesn't mean you have to use it all. I understand about wanting to use only one amp to power everything, but I've never been a big fan of this approach. I think that's why there aren't too many 5 channel options out there.

http://www.cardomain.com/item/INF5350A

http://www.cardomain.com/item/KIC06ZX7005

http://www.cardomain.com/item/MBQPAB5400

http://www.cardomain.com/item/ECLXA5000

[Speedmetal1]

You can use a 4ch amp to run the entire system no problem,It is just a matter of wiring everything up to do that . Hit me back with some info on speaker sizes of your mids and highs and the impedance of the sub your are running.

[94JZA80]

Keep in mind, you can always turn the power down, but you can't make an amp push more power than it's rated at. So yes, my amp does 340w bridged RMS, but that doesn't mean you have to use it all. I understand about wanting to use only one amp to power everything, but I've never been a big fan of this approach. I think that's why there aren't too many 5 channel options out there.

http://www.cardomain.com/item/INF5350A

http://www.cardomain.com/item/KIC06ZX7005

http://www.cardomain.com/item/MBQPAB5400

http://www.cardomain.com/item/ECLXA5000
thank you for all the links. to me it would seem like a good idea since i only need to power tweeters, fronts, rears, and one 8" W7 (granted i need 250-300W for the sub). please do explain why you aren't a big fan of the 1-amp approach. i am not as knowledgeable about this stuff as i'd like to be, and i'm learning alot from what you have to say.




You can use a 4ch amp to run the entire system no problem,It is just a matter of wiring everything up to do that . Hit me back with some info on speaker sizes of your mids and highs and the impedance of the sub your are running.
yeah sorry i saw your PM and completely forgot about it...i'm getting back to you right now.

[WhoFlungPoo]

It's not that there's anything wrong with 5-channel amps, it's just that your options are limited and cost is usually higher. Finding a 5-channel amp that has the right power, impedence, frequency response and signal-to-noise ratio for your mids/highs AND for your sub is sometimes difficult to do cost effectively.

[Maximus]

1st you could use the 300/4 in the toyota in 3 channel mode, mids an highs on front 2 channels, sub on the bridged rear channels. cheap use your existing amp. your sub will be under powered a bit.

2nd Sensious Sound @ 1 (813) 988 7059 ask for John. They have a used Alpine V12 series 5 channel amp for $399 was $500 50/4 250/1 watts. That would be the perfect amp for your 8W7. Anything they carry used is usally in perfect condition.

I have been installing car audio for 20 years. I know my shit as well.

[WhoFlungPoo]

Also, be careful trying to use a 4 channel amp to run your mids/highs AND sub. This typically requires you to run the sub off the rear two channels bridged and your mids/highs off the front two channels. You'll lose a lot of your signal processing dynamics. In essence, you'll have no more front > rear seperation to your sound.

[94JZA80]

It's not that there's anything wrong with 5-channel amps, it's just that your options are limited and cost is usually higher. Finding a 5-channel amp that has the right power, impedence, frequency response and signal-to-noise ratio for your mids/highs AND for your sub is sometimes difficult to do cost effectively.
ahh, i see what you mean now...i kinda picked up on that as i was looking at those multi-channels you linked me to. for example, the Infinity has more than enough power for the sub, but i'm not sure 50W per channel is going to be enough, being that i'm used to having my mids and highs powered by a JL 300/4 whose channels are 75W each. the Eclipse is perfect for my sub right at 300W, but again i'm unsure about the 50W channels for mids and highs. the Kicker seems to be much closer to what i'm used to for mids and highs (70W per channel, which is close to the 75W per channel i'm getting now with the JL 300/4), but is on the low side for the sub at only 210W. bridge it to 420W for the sub, and then i'm stuck with only 2 channels for mid and highs (and i would also incur the limitations of a 4-channel amp now, since the Kicker in bridged mode is essentially the same as a 4-channel amp in 3-channel mode, correct?).




Also, be careful trying to use a 4 channel amp to run your mids/highs AND sub. This typically requires you to run the sub off the rear two channels bridged and your mids/highs off the front two channels. You'll lose a lot of your signal processing dynamics. In essence, you'll have no more front > rear seperation to your sound.
so basically i won't be able to balance sound front to rear anymore? i suppose this means that all mids and highs will fade together instead of front and rear separately...tell me, is this the extent of the limitations of running everything off a 4-channel? or will i sacrifice sound quality in the process as well?




1st you could use the 300/4 in the toyota in 3 channel mode, mids an highs on front 2 channels, sub on the bridged rear channels. cheap use your existing amp. your sub will be under powered a bit.

2nd Sensious Sound @ 1 (813) 988 7059 ask for John. They have a used Alpine V12 series 5 channel amp for $399 was $500 50/4 250/1 watts. That would be the perfect amp for your 8W7. Anything they carry used is usally in perfect condition.

I have been installing car audio for 20 years. I know my shit as well.
thanks for the advice, but see Post #13 (http://www.floridagerman.com/forums/showpost.php?p=81606&postcount=13)...i already thought of that ;) . the problem is that i don't want to underpower the sub that much. i'd be stuck with 150W RMS max going to the sub if i used the 300/4 - that's about 100W short of what i'd like :D .

that Alpine V12 you mentioned sounds like it might be a good choice, 250W to the sub is something i can live with (that's what's going to my W7's now). the only thing i have a question about is the 50W x 4. my 300/4 is 75W x 4. how much volume/sound quality am i going to have to sacrifice going from 75W per channel to 50W per channel for my mids and highs?

[94JZA80]

UPDATE: i'm not so sure trying to save a few bucks is the best thing to do, and so i'm now willing to more on a quality amp that i know will be powerful enough and reliable enough. plus i already have a buyer for both my 500/1 and my 300/4.

i'm now looking at JL's 450/4 (http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=255). channels 1 & 2 are 150W RMS x 2, and can be bridged to 300W RMS x 1, which is the sweet spot for my 8" W7. and channels 3 & 4 are 75W RMS x 2, which is what i'm used to for my mids and highs (they are running on 75W channels right now on my 300/4). the only downside is going to be the price, but again, JL is a brand i've used for years and i trust their products. i'd rather pay a little extra and have peace of mind than try to save a few bucks and wonder how long some other amp will last.

[Speedmetal1]

Check Your e-mail

[Maximus]

I have a 1000/1 on two 12W6 and a Mcintosh MC440 6 channel on my MBquart mids and highs.

Quility is always the best way to go. True RMS watts

[94JZA80]

ok i did some price checking and found that i can get a JL 450/4, sell my 500/1 and 300/4, and still have about $75 left over. i just need a bit more clarification before i bite the bullet...

from the information i have gathered here so far it seems that, with the appropriately spec'd amp, i can run my entire system on one 4-channel amp. to do this though, i am required to bridge two channels for my power-hoovering subwoofer, leaving me with only two channels for mids and highs. since i have 3 pairs of speakers for mids and highs (fronts, rears, and tweeters), and the rear speakers will be on their own channel, this must mean that the front woofer AND tweeter pairs are running on the last remaining channel. am i correct thus far? the reason i'm trying to trace through this logic is b/c for a long time i've been under the impression that i was using 3 of the 4 channels on my 300/4 to power my mids and highs - one channel for the fronts, one for the rears, and one for the tweeters. but i'm starting to get the feeling that this wasn't the case. another thing i noticed that makes me wonder if my fronts and tweeters have been on the same channel all along is the fact that when i play with the front/rear fade option, the fronts and tweeters always fade together...i'm just looking for someone to tell me if i'm understanding it all correctly so that i know exactly what i'm buying when i get my amp.

thanks,
Eric

[JordanD]

JL Audio is top of the line. If that is what you want go for it, you won't be disappointed at all. The only thing with JL is you are definetely paying for the brand name too, don't get me wrong the quality there is unbetable. Alpine, and Eclipse are probably the only two other names out there that can even come close to the JL quality. Another thing you need to consider, is what do you want from it, are you a SQ guy or are you wanting to sound like you belong driving down Paramore, with 28 inch rims in you 100 dollar piece of shit car. If you want SQ then JL again > then all. I am very partial to Rockford Fosgate. There SQ is very much comperable to that of JL, but if you want to tune it to sound very deep and loud, they have that ability too. The best part about Rockford is you are not paying for the name. If you don't mind the cost then go JL, you won't be disappionted at all. If the cost is a little much shop around a little, look for Rockford, Memphis Audio, or Wolfpheus * or something like that i think they are german*. Also, look at Dynomat in your car too. The door panels, firewall, your hatch, and a few other places could use to be dynomatted if you can spair the funds, another thing alot of people will over look. Dynomat is great stuff especially for thumpers, and even just a good component set up. If you don't mind me asking what all are you running as it is. Component, tweeters, deck, don't overlook anything. Spill the info here

[JordanD]

I have a 1000/1 on two 12W6 and a Mcintosh MC440 6 channel on my MBquart mids and highs.

Quility is always the best way to go. True RMS watts
Class D amps are all true RMS

[JordanD]

also reading through your text. What woofers do you have, if you give them oversized airspace, you can achieve a great "thud". One thing you might want to consider, is two seperate amps. one for you woofers, and one for all you component. Sorry about the multiple post, I can't collect my thoughts sometimes.

[94JZA80]

JL Audio is top of the line. If that is what you want go for it, you won't be disappointed at all. The only thing with JL is you are definetely paying for the brand name too, don't get me wrong the quality there is unbetable. Alpine, and Eclipse are probably the only two other names out there that can even come close to the JL quality. Another thing you need to consider, is what do you want from it, are you a SQ guy or are you wanting to sound like you belong driving down Paramore, with 28 inch rims in you 100 dollar piece of shit car. If you want SQ then JL again > then all. I am very partial to Rockford Fosgate. There SQ is very much comperable to that of JL, but if you want to tune it to sound very deep and loud, they have that ability too. The best part about Rockford is you are not paying for the name. If you don't mind the cost then go JL, you won't be disappionted at all. If the cost is a little much shop around a little, look for Rockford, Memphis Audio, or Wolfpheus * or something like that i think they are german*. Also, look at Dynomat in your car too. The door panels, firewall, your hatch, and a few other places could use to be dynomatted if you can spair the funds, another thing alot of people will over look. Dynomat is great stuff especially for thumpers, and even just a good component set up. If you don't mind me asking what all are you running as it is. Component, tweeters, deck, don't overlook anything. Spill the info here

also reading through your text. What woofers do you have, if you give them oversized airspace, you can achieve a great "thud". One thing you might want to consider, is two seperate amps. one for you woofers, and one for all you component. Sorry about the multiple post, I can't collect my thoughts sometimes.haha you really "skimmed" through this thread :lol: . i will be running one JL 8W7 subwoofer. my mids and highs are all Boston Rally's, 6.5" rears, 5.25" fronts, and tweeters (size unknown). my head unit is an Alpine CDA9835 (60W x 4, but really its 26W RMS x 4 :roll: ). i am not interested in running my components from the head unit, and i am not interested in using two amplifiers. i have two amplifiers now (one for my subs and one for my mids/highs). i am trying to downsize and get away from that setup b/c i will be taking out one of my 8W7's, leaving me with only one 8W7. even if it makes the shopping process more difficult to find the amp with all the right requirements, in the end one amp will be simpler than two. i want to keep it as small and simple as possible. i will have a fiberglass enclosure no larger than what JL recommends, again, i want to keep the setup small, and my Celica is a hatchback, so i really don't need any extra "thud" unless i'm trying to go deaf ;) .

[JordanD]

very true. The W7's in my opinion are um well too much for me. But yeah if the you don't mind it JL stuff runs great with JL stuff. If you do one thing i tell you thought, dynomat your fucking car. It will sounds so much better then if you don't. The dynomat keeps the inside in and the outside out. The W7 are hella power hogs aren't they, maybe go a little less power to free up a channel. Cause you will have one channel with you high, one mid, one tweeter, and one woofers, so nevermind that lol. My math sucks. anywho, you seem to have it all figured out. Go JL if you can warrant the cost. I wish i could afford it. I end saying the same thing i started with, DYNOMAT FTW!!!!!!!!!!! Please don't sound like a rattle can, spend the money, it is worth every penny of it.

[94JZA80]

very true. The W7's in my opinion are um well too much for me. But yeah if the you don't mind it JL stuff runs great with JL stuff. If you do one thing i tell you thought, dynomat your fucking car. It will sounds so much better then if you don't. The dynomat keeps the inside in and the outside out. The W7 are hella power hogs aren't they, maybe go a little less power to free up a channel. Cause you will have one channel with you high, one mid, one tweeter, and one woofers, so nevermind that lol. My math sucks. anywho, you seem to have it all figured out. Go JL if you can warrant the cost. I wish i could afford it. I end saying the same thing i started with, DYNOMAT FTW!!!!!!!!!!! Please don't sound like a rattle can, spend the money, it is worth every penny of it.
actually i didn't have any dynomat in the Celica while the two 8W7's were hooked up, and i had no rattle at all. even from outside the car i heard no parts rattling while the system blasted away inside. i'll be moving from 2 8W7's in a particle board wood box to one 8W7 in an unported fiberglass enclosure...so i'm not too worried about vibration. thanks for the concern though...if it becomes an issue, i know what product to buy :thumbu: .

[94JZA80]

hey guys, i got another question...this really doesn't have to do with my decision (because i'm already heavily leaning toward the JL 450/4), but i was thinking about the JL 500/5 and it got me wondering - if i were to run my 8W7 on the 250W channel and my mids/highs on the two 100W channels, what kind of components would i use on the remaining two 25W channels? also, does the JL 500/5 not have bridging capabilities? not that i would need bridging capabilities with already available 250W for the sub and 100W for mids/highs...but suppose i wanted to bridge the two 25W channels to a 50W x 1 for some additional components later down the road...is that not possible with the 500/5? it doesn't seem like its possible according to the specs, but i just want to be sure...

[Maximus]

I sent you an email

[Speedmetal1]

The JL 5005 would be another good choice, remember a five channel amp would wire up like the two JL amps that you have now.This amps has a big downside since the rear channels put out only 25W .Kinda funny I sold my JL 5005 a couple of month ago.

[94JZA80]

The JL 5005 would be another good choice, remember a five channel amp would wire up like the two JL amps that you have now.This amps has a big downside since the rear channels put out only 25W .Kinda funny I sold my JL 5005 a couple of month ago.
i actually decided to go with the 500/5 instead of the 450/4. i know i said a few days ago that i'd be fine with the 450/4, even if i didn't have front/rear separation of sound. but i started having second thoughts about not having as much freedom with signal processing. i know the 500/5 has only 25W rear channels, but my setup shouldn't suffer - those are RMS watts, not peak watts...and i don't plan on running power-hungry 6.5's in the rear, so i should be OK. i'll just have to up the gain a bit more in the rear than in the front.

on the plus side of the 500/5, i was recently informed that JL's 500/5 shares the same internal design as a 650/5 amp manufactured (but discontinued) by JL's sister company (can't remember the name) - and that the subwoofer channel is actually somewhere between 300-350W RMS, not 250W RMS like JL claims. it seems the 500/5's power is quite underrated.

anyways, thanks everyone for all the advice...:thumbu:

[Speedmetal1]

You will not disappointed with the amp. As for internal design the JL slash series use heavily regulated power supplies which is nothing new.There is alot of other amps on the market that are comparable or better than JL audio such as Zapco ,Xtant,USamps,ARC Audio,Audison, just to name a few.

[94JZA80]

There is alot of other amps on the market that are comparable or better than JL audio such as Zapco ,Xtant,USamps,ARC Audio,Audison, just to name a few.
without a doubt...i'm not saying that all of JL's Slash series amps are terribly underrated, i was just referring to the 500/5...i really don't know if any of the other Slash series amps shared internal designs with other, more powerful amps from JL's sister company like the 500/5 does. at any rate, while i know there are better 5 channel amps out there, i knew i couldn't go wrong with this one, especially with subwoofer made by the same company. also, the fact that i should be seeing more like 300-350W on the subwoofer channel instead of the 250W JL clamis it produces tells me that my sub will not be slightly underpowered, but rather right at its sweet spot for power consumption. oh yeah, and i found a very good deal on a 500/5 and a capacitor, so i couldn't pass it up. ;)