Should I buy it?

[Mercs Dude]

Hey guys, this lady I work with has been driving this 1976 911S (Targa) for the last ten years and since she has started scuba diving, she has decided to part ways with her little Porsche.

The car has always been in Florida so very minor rust, 170K miles, 5 speed. Everything original. The paint is faded and it needs the seats redone. However, there is something I like about this car, even though it looks rough, she keeps it completely clean all the time. The original (?) chrome wheels are always looking like a mirror and the cracked leather seats have no dust what so ever. I am almost tempted to buy it and never restore it because it has that clean "vintage" look. She has 3K worth of receipts of recent "tune up" she has done to the car.

The car fires up right away, sounds great and goes thru the 5 speed with no problem. A/C is cold too.

Now, down to the price, she is asking 9K for it, which I believe it could be too much (correct me please if I'm mistaken). What type of problem areas should I look for? Are these hard/expensive to keep up with? What about parts? Should I offer 5K?

[ohdavey6286]

the price seems fair. What work did she do to it for the tune up. If it needs a top end rebuild you are looking at serious money, about the price you were going to offer. They are fun cars to have an drive but they are expensive to maintain/restore.

[McLovin]

That price is about average. You may find some a tiny bit lower and some higher but that is about average for that mileage and condition that you describe. As for offering her 5k, I doubt she will take it but you know her better than any of us. If you cannot afford more than that I would walk away from this car. You will need some $$ to bring it's maintenance up to date in order to properly enjoy the car. If you aren't willing to do that you are just setting yourself up for a dissapointing relationship with the car. If you commit to it, it will reward you with lots of smiles per gallon.

Here is a post that might help you. From Rennlist.com

THE PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection)

Re posted - Bob

By: Peter Zimmermann

DISCLAIMER: This article is for information only and makes no guarantee that a problem/problems won’t be missed during a PPI. Some 911 models will not require the full spectrum of checks on this list, and some models may require checks that aren’t listed (pre ’76 cars must be checked more closely for rust, while 3.2 liter Carreras will need to have their foot-well heater blowers checked). The list below is primarily intended for use on ’89 and older 911s, but its general layout can also be effective on newer models. The sequence, listed below, of an inspection has been established during the hundreds of PPIs that I have performed. It’s a given that notes should be kept regarding issues found during any of the following numbered checks.

The purchase of a Porsche automobile, for most of us, is an important moment, sometimes one that satisfies a lifelong dream. Unfortunately, because of that, considerable emotion is usually part of the deal. Emotion is your enemy. A pre-purchase inspection is your friend.

With that in mind be warned that there are shops that will spend ten minutes looking at your dream and pronounce it “good-to-go.” Nobody out there is that good. Busy Porsche shops usually do PPIs by appointment, and dedicate the appropriate amount of time for the job, whether it’s two hours (a pristine, rust-free ’71 T), or four to five hours (an ’83 SC Cabriolet that needs extensive work but is salvageable). Some shops claim that they’re Porsche experts, but if their garage is loaded with BMWs and Mercedes, without a 911 in sight, that must be considered. Carefully choose the Porsche shop that will do your PPI, and if the seller is in the auto business, have someone else do the PPI. Note, especially on older Porsches, that an independent Porsche shop may be your best PPI choice.

Some shops charge a flat fee to perform a PPI, some charge by the hour. Either way is fine, and almost without exception the buyer pays. I call a PPI an insurance policy.

OK, you’ve found your dream; the sexiest, blackest, shiniest SC coupe that you’ve ever seen. Ah, ha! Emotion has already clouded your objectivity. The car is not as described as above, for now it’s just a car. Let’s assume that you are the type of person who hasn’t begun to study Porsche’s, you know nothing about them, other than you want one. You can contract a professional to do a walk-around inspection of that black car, or have him do a full-blown PPI. Freedom of choice is a great thing, but I believe that you would be foolish to do anything but the latter.

Let’s say that you’re the type of person that does his homework, you’ve read everything about 911s that you can get your hands on (but you’ve never been a hands-on person when it comes to fixing things). You also have a choice; a walk-around inspection, a put it up on a hoist and have a look inspection, or a full-blown PPI. You would be foolish to choose any option other than the full-blown PPI, because knowing how much horsepower that black car has won’t help you determine if it’s had an accident.

Now we get to the motorheads among you. You’re the unknown. There is no way to guess at the knowledge and talent that you might possess. You probably already know that most manufacturers recommends that tires be replaced after five years, regardless of remaining tread. You probably know that tires have a born-on date code on their sidewall, and know how to read it. You probably know how to replace spark plugs, and that those plugs need to be gapped. What you probably don’t know is how to locate the damaged rear frame rail on that black car, which could tell you that the car has been rear-ended and had not been repaired properly. Regardless of how much you know about Hemi-Cudas or pre ’68 VW Beetles, you probably don’t know enough about 911s to avoid a full-blown PPI. Remember, the lawyer that defends himself has a fool for a client. No matter how skilled you are, your Porsche technician is probably better. Try to ascertain his skill and experience, then hire him. I believe that a full-blown PPI is the only PPI, all else is nothing more than casual conversation.

The PPI method outlined below is a logical approach that works for me; it’s not intended to be the final word on the subject. Also, never try to get your PPI technician to offer information regarding what he thinks the car to be checked is worth. The guy is probably not in sales; he’s a mechanic. He’s there to tell you what’s wrong with the car that you brought to him; what you pay for that car is your decision.

1. Place the car to be inspected on a lift.
2. Walk around the car one time; look at seams & paint texture.
3. Open the engine lid to assist cool down. If the engine is near/at full temperature, place a fan on it.
4. Raise the car to access undercarriage.
5. Check the front tie rods/tie rod ends, their rubber boot condition and play in each ball joint. If car is fitted with original, non-Turbo type tie rods verify that their inboard mounting yoke is set at the correct angle.
6. Test the lower ball joints for rubber boot deterioration and play in the ball & socket of the joint.
7. Check the body panel that surrounds the gasoline tank for signs that the chassis has been pushed one way or the other, or collapsed.
8. Check the forward mounting points of the control arms for rust, battery corrosion, etc.
9. Spin the front wheels and listen for bearing noise, then check for excessive bearing play.
10. Check brake pad wear and the production date of brake hoses (all four).
11. At the rear of the car inspect for oil leaks and their possible cause.
12. Check the clutch cable; both installation position and adjustment. Adjust the clutch (if the cable is correct the clutch and shifting of the transmission are easier to evaluate during the test drive).
13. Check the rubber seal for the engine bay: Is it intact? Installed correctly? Is the engine sitting square in the engine bay?
14. Check heater boxes, hoses and cables, sway bar mounts, wire harness at starter, CV joint boots/bolts, and rear shocks (leakage).
15. Spin the rear wheels by hand, listen for noise; check for bearing play.
16. Walk around the entire underside of the car; look for cracks at suspension mounting points, underbelly work, existing damage, etc.
17. Lower the lift about half way, examine the bottoms of the doors, front cooler lines, front cooler/mounts, horns, wiring at lights, oil reservoir, etc.
18. Lower the car to a convenient working height, open the trunk lid, check the battery for boil-over, verify presence of spare, jack, tool kit and compressor. Check the VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) stamping and compare it to the VIN plate on the “A” pillar, and the VIN decal on the left door jamb. Check beneath the power brake booster (if equipped) for the presence of brake fluid.
19. Open both doors, with a flashlight check under seats and floor carpet sections for evidence of water damage. Check the floor near pedals for the presence of brake fluid on early cars without power brakes. Close both doors (1st latch only) and evaluate door check straps.
20. Open the left door, turn on the ignition, and check turn signals, 4-way flashers, brake lights, and all other lights including interior, engine compartment and trunk. Check wiper/washer system and headlight washers.
21. Check operation of power mirrors, power windows, sunroof and horn.

NOTE: The PPI technician should not be asked to, or be held responsible for, the function of Cabriolet or Targa tops. Damage during handling is possible; the car’s seller should demonstrate top function to the buyer’s satisfaction.

22. Extend both front safety belts and check them for fraying, damage and proper retraction.
23. If the engine is sufficiently cool, visually check for all required pollution control devices, the presence of Carrera tensioners when they would be an update, the condition of air hoses, spark plug wires, belts, fuel hoses, etc. Check for the presence of an engine number.

NOTE: Decision time. Unless a pre-agreement has been made now is the time to consult the buyer, approximate the dollar amount of repairs needed, and decide whether to continue. Cylinder head stud inspection is next.

24. Remove the valve covers and check for the presence of all 24 head nuts. (On magnesium case engines torque the nuts to 23.5 lb/ft, cold engines only, as a way to check for “pulled” studs).
25. If no broken studs/pulled studs are found proceed with a leak down test. (Although some disagree, I feel that a compression check on a 911 is often useless, while a leak down test is invaluable. A knowledgable mechanic can use the leak down test to assess the condition of several important engine components, like valves and rings.)
26. Assemble/install removed components, and add three quarts of oil to the car.
27. Check for full throttle.
28. Start the car and listen to it for a minute or two; look for fuel leakage, uncontrolled sparks at ignition distributor/spark plug connectors. Check charging system using a VOM (Volt-Ohm Meter) at the battery. Check function of heater, including blowers.
29. Inflate tires to correct factory pressures for the year/model and put the car on the floor.
30. During the test drive evaluate the A/C using a thermometer placed in a dashboard vent. Evaluate shifting, clutch, acceleration, alignment and brake qualities/deficiencies. If the condition of valve guides is suspect, after the engine is warm hold the engine at about 4,000 rpm for the distance of a city block. Then decelerate, with engine braking only, and watch for tell-tale smoke from the exhaust using the outside mirror.
31. Following the drive, both in traffic and on the freeway/highway/interstate, allow the car to idle until the front oil cooler is hot to the touch, or the temp gauge nears the half way point. Top up the oil, verify gauge function, and provide the buyer a written, on the record, report.

[Mercs Dude]

Thanks for the advice folks. I am feeling inclined to pass this one at this point. Assuming that the mechanical condition of the car is as sharp as it felt when I drove her, it is a 35 y/o car which will break sooner than later. If this car is not cheap to fix (which German car isn't), then I don't think I want to have another one to add to the stable since I own four Mercedes already. I also know myself; I say right now that I would like to keep the car as it is (rough on the edges) but eventually I will go and start replacing parts and who knows from there.

On the other hand, I love this PPI method. I will keep it in mind next time I'm in the market for a Porsche. I have always lusted after 911's and I will get me one one day. I agree with you guys on the statement that you should buy the best car example that you can afford.

Thank you.

[Mercs Dude]

This is my dream Porsche.


http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=61252901&listingRecNum=16&criteria=prMx%3D50000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%2 6mkId%3D20081%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D20567%26rd%3D1 00000%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice-clrId%26zc%3D33910%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26clrId%3D27132%26sf2Dir%3DAS C%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26rpp%3D50%26fee dSegId%3D28705&aff=national

[JRiggs]

i love old cars but as you know they are more prone to "shit happening". but if you like it do it, hell with the consequences

and my dream pcar would be a 959

[Mercs Dude]

i love old cars but as you know they are more prone to "shit happening". but if you like it do it, hell with the consequences

and my dream pcar would be a 959

I hear you, three of my four Benzes are 25-35y/o and I have a decent share of "shit happening" frequently. My girl pointed out the other day that, while I drive them, I continue to pay attention to every single noise my babies make to look for any sign of trouble, of course that's my excuse for not listening to her yapping as well :-)

[JRiggs]

yeah my e30 vert is the same way, no radio so i can listen to her purr

[g-50cab]

Hey - that kinda looks like my car


This is my dream Porsche.


http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=61252901&listingRecNum=16&criteria=prMx%3D50000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%2 6mkId%3D20081%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D20567%26rd%3D1 00000%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice-clrId%26zc%3D33910%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26clrId%3D27132%26sf2Dir%3DAS C%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26rpp%3D50%26fee dSegId%3D28705&aff=national